The Letterboxd Show 3.33: Jamelle Bouie
SLIM Before we start, we want to point out that this episode is brought to you by Netflix’s White Noise. Noah Baumbach directs Academy Award nominees Adam Driver, Greta Gerwig and Don Cheadle.
GEMMA Four of our favorites, Slim!
SLIM Based on the novel by Don DeLillo, White Noise follows an American family as they grapple with love, death and the possibility of happiness.
GEMMA The BBC says it’s, "brilliant, entertaining and thrillingly original." So make sure to go see White Noise in select theaters now, and on Netflix December 30.
SLIM And now, on with the show.
[clip of Black Dynamite plays]
SLIM Hello, and welcome to The Letterboxd Show, the podcast about movies people love watching from Letterboxd, the social network for people who love watching movies. I’m Slim, she’s Gemma, and each week we are ed by a special guest to talk about their four favorite films. We watch or rewatch those movies and dive into a conversation with our guests about why these four make the grade. This week—podcaster, New York Times columnist and Letterboxd member, Jamelle Bouie is here to chat action, mystery and one of the best spoof movies of all time.
GEMMA Jamelle has a podcast called Unclear and Present Danger on the political and military thrillers of mostly the 1990s and how they connect to the politics of today. It’s brilliant. I’ve been reading Jamelle’s reviews, and we’ve been chasing Jamelle down for a while for the pod basically because we love his Letterboxd reviews so much and I just want to be his new best friend, tbh. So that’s, that’s the secret agenda of this show. I am obsessed with his photography and really excited to dive into the political backdrops to Jamelle’s four Letterboxd favorites, which are: Children of Men, Black Dynamite, The Taking of Pelham One Two Three (the 1974 version) and Touch of Evil. Jamelle, welcome to The Letterboxd Show, what an absolute pleasure to have finally tied you down.
JAMELLE Oh, thank you so much for having me. My apologies for being a little hard to tie down. It’s been in kind of a busy, busy past three months for me so, but I’m very happy to be on the show.
SLIM Gemma has planned at this moment for three seasons. Every episode ahead of this was just a scam to get Jamelle on the pod. She didn’t care about those episodes.
GEMMA I’ve been baiting you for months. In fact, for more than a year, I don’t know if you saw but we had a big long interview with David Lowery last year about The Green Knight and I quoted your Letterboxd review of The Green Knight at him and got a beautiful reply from him. Like this is a long this is a long campaign on my part.
JAMELLE I really, I really—that was like one of the first movies I saw, you know, pandemic everything. And gotta love that movie. It’s just a wonderful, a wonderful film.
GEMMA Did you see what David Lowery said about you? Know, I didn’t festival as an avid reader of Jamal’s New York Times column and newsletter. It is humbling to know that he’s not only seen my movie, but written something about it. I’m a little bit starstruck. Secondly, his reading of the film is exactly what I intended.
JAMELLE That’s really cool. I’m I’m starstruck when I just words on paper that’s
GEMMA unbelievably chilled.
SLIM Well, you talked about being busy and you’re you’re busy. Some of those days recording your podcast unclear and present danger, which we talked about in the intro. It’s the perfect combination. I because we were talking about pre show about 1990s political and military thrillers, like looking back. This is like my parents era renting movies. And I vividly so many of these movies. Like there’s some bangers in there like in my head. They’re bangers like oh, yeah, like all those. Those Harrison Ford’s the Clint Eastwood ’s of the world. And we were talking pre show about In the Line of Fire. But are there any movies where you’ve covered so far? That really surprised you going back maybe for better or worse, that really, like jumped out at you like, Dang this actually, this movie still hums like this is a great movie. Or maybe that just don’t stand up to the test of time as much as you thought.
JAMELLE You know, I think as far as stuff that’s still really hums. We recently did an episode on The Firm, the John Grisham adaptation that we just recorded an episode on The Pelican Brief and of the two movies. The Pelican Brief I think is a little weaker than The Firm but they’re both just kind of like extremely compelling films to watch Even if they have very obvious problems in The Pelican Brief, the big one is, it doesn’t make any sense to want to assassinate Supreme Court justices to get like a very narrow political outcome and like the short term that is actually just stupid this plan on the planet, but the movies moves so quickly. There’s so much fun. They have these, like massive casts of every possible character actor and like half the fun of them. And you’re just sort of like, oh, I recognize that person. Oh, that person, that person. And so those, those are the ones that I think still really hum and still really, really hold up. There. Also in the style, Jake, for reasons we talked a little earlier, which is just like, this kind of movie doesn’t get made that much. And yeah. Kind of the star driven character actor saturated mid budget, thriller. And so it’s nice. It’s just nice to watch them, even when they’re not the strongest film. What’s what’s been interesting about doing the podcast is that the structure of it is because people are always like, what are you going to do Arlington Road ring at The Siege, and I’m always like, I mean, assuming assuming John and I are still friends and two or three years, like assuming that the relationship is remains good in like four years, because the structure of the podcast is we do an episode every two weeks. And we’re going as much as possible in chronological order. We really want to do this sort of like we’re going to go through the 90s as they happen to really nice 93 Now but part of this also is like scouring release scheduled for like every possible kind of movie like this. And so I’ve just watched stuff I didn’t know existed in the first place. So we went we did a movie on a bit of an episode a movie called White Sands, just like a just a little almost sort of like a Coen Brothers esque drama about William Defoe plays a sheriff and like New Mexico who discovers a bunch of money and everything unfolds from there.
GEMMA This is by my countrymen, Roger Donaldson. That’s right. Yep.
JAMELLE So it’s it’s both like it’s fine. It’s like not you know, it’s not the strongest film. But also,
GEMMA it’s a 2.8 on letterboxed.
SLIM Let’s not beat around the bush. It’s close to the line.
JAMELLE It was fun to watch it both is sort of like a kind of discovery like I didn’t know this thing existed. And to just sort of you know, take in again, this kind of like this type of movie that just doesn’t get released in theaters anymore because it sounds like William Defoe, Mary Elizabeth Marsha Antonio, it has, what’s his name? Why am I experiencing Mickey Rourke? Like it has like, real stars right? Doing sort of attempting to do something interesting and it just like it doesn’t really hit but like it’s still Yeah, it’s still fun to watch.
GEMMA Can I read you an excerpt from semi pants 60 nines later bucks review.
JAMELLE Of course. I would love to hear an excerpt from Saturday pants 6947 out
GEMMA of 100 or two and a half stars classic noir set up with a great man and over his head storyline that’s really strong for the first 2x But absolutely shits the bed and the final 30 minutes parading out laughable twist after laughable twist.
SLIM Sounds about right. I’m getting a moment where like, this is your David Lowery moment, but for Sammy pants 69 like yours. You know, I’m a big fan of St. Patrick’s tonight. I read them every week.
GEMMA We’ll just followed you if you want to know where those three fellows came from.
SLIM I will say this this genre is a lot of fun. And I just always compare this in a positive way to like TBS, like when you’re at home, your younger TBS is playing these movies. And you kind of like wish for those days still, where you could just watch like loafing around the couch. And just watch TBS or TNT. We’re playing the most middle aged dad movies that you can think of. And they’re fun. They’re fun to watch, but a lot of fun.
JAMELLE I mean, yeah, there’s there’s usually some action, there’s some explosions, people in meetings. I’m a big fan of movies or people in meetings, people just like, the least cinematic thing in the world, right, like people in meetings, and maybe just reflects like by bourgeois life, right? To people in meetings. But movies where people are in meeting shouting at each other is like my sweet spot.
GEMMA I love I love a busy cop shop. Where the you know, the camera has to just, you know, find its way through a lot of busy cops to get to the chief who’s usually yelling at someone. Also, is it a 1990s action movie, if someone doesn’t fall through a skylight?
JAMELLE Within more than a fire someone falls through a skylight. If it gets in the TBS contract,
SLIM they don’t do Syndicate, they’ll syndicate that movie unless someone’s falling through the skyline.
GEMMA I just I know we’ve got to move on. We’ve got four films to talk about. But last question on on unclear and present danger. Film bangers is vascular surgeon Richard Kimble and The Fugitive the The best unexpected movie hero of all time.
JAMELLE Yes. At least right? It’s a funny adjective because it’s like, it’s Harrison Ford. And so just sort of like, he can’t, he can sell a lot of things. I just don’t think he can sell not having the competence to do a thing, right? Obviously, obviously, this guy’s going to know how to like stay one step ahead of the Feds like, of course he is. I elite, we just did an episode on The Fugitive. I love that movie. We talked about, we talked about a lot in of sort of its class and racial politics, how sort of sort of actually doing some interesting things there. And it seems to be self aware about Richard Kimble as like an affluent white man, what the disadvantage is that gives him in trying to evade the feds. But what I liked about that movie, what I like about all those Harrison Ford movies, is that Harrison Ford, very handsome man, very charming. But directors have asked him to go one of two directions with them. They’re either like, this guy is so handsome, and so charming and his little devilish. Let’s like make him our hero. Let’s make them our lovable rogue. He’s Han Solo. He’s Indiana Jones, whatever. Or they go, I don’t trust that guy. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t trust that he’s too handsome. too charming. That guy seems like someone who like might have killed his wife. And so you have all these movies from this period where it’s like, there’s Presumed Innocent words like Harrison Ford. I cheated on my wife, but I swear I didn’t kill her. There’s what’s the what’s the Roman is that doesn’t the Roman Polanski want or it was Roman Polanski one reason Paris his wife gets kidnapped. Frantic. I think of . Yeah. So that movie, it’s Harrison Ford. I did not kidnap my wife The Fugitive. Obviously I didn’t I kill my wife. And then later in the decade with like, What Lies Beneath its Yeah, maybe I killed my wife. I just find that so funny about Harrison Ford. The directors have a one of two directions with him like, charming guy. He’s the hero, charming guy. Don’t trust them.
GEMMA I just love I love that all of these kinds of action films are like the perfect kick back after a big meal holiday fodder. And, and as we record this, YouTube, we’re heading into Thanksgiving weekend, it is the holiday season. We know you’ve got to get going soon to bake some pies. So we do need to start talking about your four favorites. What were you chaps doing on Christmas Day? 2006. Were you in fact, at the cinema to see Alfonso corones dystopian new film about a young pregnant woman whose child promises the future of humankind. We are of course talking about Children of Men, which, to my surprise and dismay, did not win the Oscar for Best Picture that year did The Departed, which of course, I mean, Maddie. But Children of Men is rated 0.01 of a point higher than The Departed on Letterboxd. And it wasn’t even nominated in the Best Picture category. It did get nominated for a depth of screenplays and photography, editing. And it is 163 and the litter box top 250. So let’s dive in. It’s the second time we’ve had Children of Men on the show. As a fourth favorite, it would have been the fifth time but we discouraged a few other guests from talking about it. Because otherwise it would just be the children of mean,
SLIM there was like four weeks in a row or so and had Children of Men and therefore fans Yeah, how
JAMELLE old are the other people? I do think I mean, seriously, I think this is a movie came out in 2006. I was in college. I was I think I think my second year of college. And I think that for people who either loved movies or came to love movies, Children of Men is like maybe one of their first encounters with a film that really seems to be saying something and doing something different than what you may have been accustomed to as like a teenager right? Sort of like you’re kind of it’s like it’s an it’s in some way or it’s not I don’t think of that movie as an art film but it’s like baby’s first art film right and a lot of ways
GEMMA and not least baby’s first first memorable one shot maybe
JAMELLE right me exactly like you do. Unless especially in the days before streaming right like when you when you in when maybe you had a local video store. You had a blockbuster blockbuster sort of like you know, not actually particularly great selection current day blockbuster nostalgia is very strange to me because I sort of sucked. But unless you just like we’re able to go to the movies all the time, which not necessarily like that’s not the case for most people. You just didn’t encounter a lot of stuff. Maybe you could find something at the at the Library of VHS or whatever. And so as far as things showing up at the multiplex Children of Men for certain person of a certain age was like well I didn’t know movies could do that right like that that that one shot I didn’t know that could happen and I could do that the the scene when they’re ambushed in their driving backwards and Julian Morris character is killed and it’s like traumatic and scary and say I seeing it for the first time just being like, what is happening like I didn’t realize, but you could have stuff like this in a movie. It’s so intense and so frightening. Not like scared like a horror movie frightening as in sort of, like, I’m as confused and disoriented. This the people in the car right now and I to go on to say why this movie. So my, my top four, it’s very much a baby’s first art movie, in my case. And also, I do think there’s something so it’s still such a visceral movie, the eye watch it like, roughly once a year, so hits you in the gut. And especially in the past couple years, it’s been sort of like, oh, this is like uncomfortably prescient, about about our world. This is keyed into some something very real about the world in which we live, which I think just kind of gives it ever more ever more value as a film.
SLIM I was thinking about that too. In 2006, I was probably in theaters to see the departed. I was one of those, you know, film, boys seen the department theater, like, Oh, isn’t the greatest movie you’ve ever seen? And then I would slowly go back to his filmography. So I think I saw Children of Men around that timeframe, maybe on a DVD or something, but I never connected at the same time you did with it. I think I saw it. And it was like, wow, it was cool. But so then when we first rewatched it for the letterbox show maybe a couple years ago, might have been like two years ago, a year ago. You’re I was almost like slapped in the face. Like what was I thinking back then? Like, this is insane movie. And I at the time I my review, I think was I would follow Alfonso Koran directly into the sun. If I had to. Maybe the greatest living director, in my opinion, at least my favorite, because as soon after that rewatch I finally watched Roma and I just like, was totally annihilated by that movie. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. And I think it added more of an appreciation for Children of Men like which was years previous. And like you said, so ahead of its time that it feels like it’s getting even more timeless. Like even on this watch. I finally rewash it tonight ahead of this recording. And it’s just like insane how timely this movie is. And it’s fun to watch and get things that like I never really caught on other viewings is when he’s going to meet his buddy. And he he’s told that he can’t smoke in the building. And he does something that I always do, which is when someone like almost like talks down to you, whereas a stranger talks down to you and you kind of like lose your your edge and you just say like you have something stuck in your teeth. Wheatley deflates them and moves them down a few pegs I never caught him doing that in the movie until this watch which cracked me up I do
GEMMA It’s funny because I was at Japan girly to I bought that film on DVD the minute it came out in probably rewatched it quite a few times. So obsessed but with Leonardo DiCaprio in that film, but I do seeing children of men at the summer when it came out and walking out. Going what? Yeah, what did I just see? What was that? And I it was not baby’s first out film. But it felt like, you know, babies next phase of art film appreciation, there was something going on in there that was unlike anything else I felt like I’d seen at that point. And what I find interesting in the context of talking about like 90s American action films, as is the concept of the action hero in this context, Clive Owen is the lead who, who, who doesn’t want but has been given the job because he was just trying to get a latte in the cafe blow up of shepherding this young pregnant, you know, child basically to safety in the midst of a horrendous political pandemic is so chill as an action hero. He’s so sort of British Lee understated, but it’s fascinating that he doesn’t want this job and he just gets deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper into it, and just has to become harder and harder whilst also protecting an unborn child. And and its mother and I’m just like, I don’t know, I don’t I haven’t found a conclusion around it yet, but I’m just really interested in other forms of masculine action hero.
SLIM Clear and present danger covering this in 2040.
JAMELLE I mean, it is totally, it is totally the kind of movie we would cover, assuming we, you know, we get that far into the timeline, because, in addition, I guess it was pression. And I think what I mean by that is that Koran that the Script team, like they all seem to really zero in on how in times of this sort of, like existential crisis, it’s not so much that like things would completely collapse, it’s not going to be anarchy, that’s always the fantasy, right? It’s going to be anarchy. But what is going to be is like, the worst aspects, elements of the system like rubbing themselves up, right. So it’s sort of like, the, the, you know, whenever xenophobia in British society exists, is this gonna, like supercharge itself, right, like everything, everything that exists to maintain some semblance of order, it’s going to go into overdrive, and in an attempt to provide that appearance of order, and people are going to, by and large live with it, the scene, like there are lots of scenes in that movie that are just like stuck in my head. But one of them is very, it’s just the beginning. It’s very simple. It’s just when like, like, a bomb goes off, and people sort of flinch. And then they can go about what they’re doing. And that’s that that, I mean, just talked about, like filmmaking, right. But that’s a small moment that actually tells you a great deal about the world in which these people inhabit this film.
GEMMA Also, it does sort the mid from the majestic when it comes to action films. Because it could be purely plot based, we need to get this kid and her unborn child to the coast and on a boat. That’s it. It’s a linear plot. We don’t need a lot of character growth. We just need a guy, you know, an action hero to do that with her. But as Matthew Kreisman writes on letterboxed Alfonso Cuaron, has managed to make a kind of movie that I’ve never seen before, a deeply political film that somehow avoids clunky exposition, rousing speeches, or other agenda laden and cinematic elements that detract from the storytelling. Or, you know, Luke Hicks just simply writes, where’s the button for six stars, we’re working on it.
JAMELLE Look, we’re working on a really great example of that is that the girl who is pregnant, she is like an African immigrant and nothing’s like, set explicitly about this. It’s not like, there’s no you know, little point of emphasis in the script or anything. But visually, like you are you you enter the world, it’s like kind of just a mostly white British society that’s collapsing in itself, because no one’s being born. And it appears that like the, the hope for humanity, is in exactly the kinds of people who are now at the margins of the society who you see being rounded up in internment camps, you know, people who are suffering the brunt of the British state. And you don’t actually have to say anything, you can just like, you just show it, and a reasonably intelligent viewer will immediately get the message, get the irony, and get sort of like the larger statement. This is making and also, you know, use I’ll use this phrase again, get peeks into the movies, like is actually keyed in into the kinds of anxieties that actually are fueling Western society. It’s like fears of, you know, quote, unquote, replacement, right? Like, this movie comes out 10 years before Brexit, right? But it feels like it’s a Brexit movie.
GEMMA Yeah, a Brexit movie, a pandemic movie, all of those things and your end, and you’re so on the button in of key as a character, in who she is and what she represents. And in the way that this almost subvert the trope of the white male lead the hero, the white Hero, who, upon whose shoulders the entire future of humanity rests because we do have him in the form of clay, VO and bat, he’s, he’s got to figure it out along the way. And he needs a lot of help. Right?
JAMELLE He needs a lot of help. He ultimately is sort of like a midwife, right? Like he’s not the star of that story. And the movie has suggested the end that he doesn’t mean may not even live to see that story. Right that like, you know, he may not he may not live to see the fruits of what he accomplished. If he accomplished anything.
SLIM They wish to talk about a star that will see those accomplishments and that’s Black Dynamite 2009
JAMELLE Nice transition that’s a good place to move on. Yeah,
SLIM I’ll tell you what, he has not died on that but he will craft some kind of scheme to save his ass and we’ll
GEMMA Go on to father all of the future children of humanity
SLIM while telling the girls to be quiet, there’s that’s a common name black.
JAMELLE You know, don’t get me started. That line I think it’s a During the funny
SLIM so directed by Scott Sanders, written by Michael Jai White, the star along with Byron Mintz and Sanders co writing so 3.9 average synopsis for this movie Black Dynamite is the greatest African American action star the 1970s when his only brother is killed by the man, it’s up to him to find justice. i I’ll be just brutally honest with the both of you. This is a five star movie I rewatched. For the first time in years this week, I was dying, laughing at at just about every scene. So Jim, what’s your history with Black Dynamite?
JAMELLE So when he’s black, I mean, first is my history with like, blaxploitation. May not be I mean, you guys can see me but listeners may not know that I’m African American black guy from the south. My parents really like r&b. They’re like, they were teenagers during the height of life with patience for those movies just for like very much a part of their childhood. And I grew up watching them with my dad. So I have a lot of fondness for these movies. This is for like, things that I watched with my father, things that sort of like inform his pop culture sensibilities. And so I came you know, when I started, I started like dynamite around the time it came out, and I came to it sort of already kind of like getting it right, sort of like understanding what this would be trying to do. Like recognizing all the tropes and all that stuff. I don’t have like high minded feelings for this movie. I just like love it. I just think it’s so funny. I think it’s both a, it’s actually like a great example of a blaxploitation movie. Like it hits all the story beats, like it does everything those movies do. And also the perfect it’s like perfect parody, perfect homage like it does both of them at the same time. And it’s Michael Jai White, plays it so straight. He’s so funny as like this sort of like unflappable, straight man. Yeah, I don’t know I again, nothing high minded. I just think it’s extremely funny. Everything. Everything about them really makes me laugh. Like literally everything
SLIM is Michael Jai White, the greatest action star of all time because of Black Dynamite. I mean, the the question has to be asked just from this role alone,
JAMELLE I mean, he’s been in a lot of good style. He’s what used to be a king of direct a video, you know,
GEMMA I don’t know why I didn’t do this before but obviously because there’s this great you know, and in the great tradition of exploitation, there’s a whole three line about kung fu Black Dynamite is a great martial artist, but then so too as Michael J white and nine different styles no less. Absolutely jujitsu the martial art for you know, today’s actors, but taekwondo boxing Tang, pseudo wushu. Wow, I hadn’t Why didn’t I know that? This is amazing. And also wait, just to add to his many skills. He was a special ed teacher. Oh, great guy. Am I in love with Black Dynamite? Or am I alone with Michael Jai White.
JAMELLE He also has just a bunch of great comedic actors. And again, people I recognize from encountered has Tommy Davidson, playing the character cream corn. Which is, again, like I said, everything is just funny. When you’re introduced the creamed corn, he’s getting a perm. And he’s singing, singing, I’m running things I’m running things, and then black adamant firsthand and chases him as a whole thing. But just like that delivery of I’m running things is like very funny. There’s Cedric Yarbrough who plays a pimp and and I think I think no joke delivers one of the funniest lines of any movie in the 90s and that is when Black Dynamite says, I got a message for y’all. No more selling drugs to the community. In such a cure. Oprah says Black Dynamite I’ll sell drugs to the community.
SLIM I think there’s so many reviews on letterbox that are literally just their favorite quotes just cries movie. That quote would Branson Reese quoted that exact quote that you just mentioned. Sally Jane, your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for Kung Fu treachery. I mean, what an amazing scene. There’s this this is a perfect movie, in my opinion.
JAMELLE I mean, it moves quickly. Like it’s it’s not it’s like a good it’s a well made film. That’s what that’s what’s so great. It’s a well made film. That also happens to be just sort of kind of bonkers and ridiculous but not in a Zucker brothers should have just like wacky kind of thing. It’s all the all the all the gags and jokes and humor are sort of like grounded in what the genre is. And so another great moment is there’s a fight in a pool hall. And I think it’s I think it’s bullhorn who’s fighting the character bullhorns fighting someone and he the extra who’s supposed to Hit him actually hit seven there’s a cut, and it’s like a new guy got fired. And just like a lot like a lot of the humor comes out of that there’s a character who can’t stop reading mistakes direction to gifts. Excuse me, brothers, the Milton star studded. This is private. How’d you get here? Well, let me speak to the man in charge. sarcastically I’m in charge. Richard, Jason shows up at the end of the bad guy, right?
SLIM Like this, the scene that probably had me howling the most was the Abe Lincoln scene towards the end. Like that is like the ultimate capper to the entire journey at that moment, and it’s perfect. It’s so well done, where it’s, it’s almost to the point where I was thinking, like, this is one of the most perfect comedies I’ve ever seen. Like, I wonder how this didn’t turn into a series of films or a franchise, everything under the sun today gets turned into a franchise. And I only have one Black Dynamite. I can’t tell if I am happy with just one like a perfect film, where I would want more Black Dynamite.
JAMELLE There ought to have been a world and I think they talked about this a little bit like this was sort of a thing he wanted to do. But where you just take this kind of formula, parody homage and take it to other other black genres of the 70s. So there’s like the there are a bunch of black Westerns that there’s one called Boss starring Fred Williamson, some actually called Boss that just can’t say what it’s called, because it’s inappropriate. It’s like very silly. It’s like a very silly kind of like, you know, big guy big strong guy comes into town cleans it up as like anything movie like Blazing Saddles is very much like taking off of a movie like Boss. Like that’s sort of what it’s in dialogue with it’s as well as other more traditional westerns. But I think I think Michael Jai White had like floated doing back a Black Dynamite kind of movie for that kind of film. And there’s, you know, I would have loved because he couldn’t movies are very expensive. Give the guy like $3 million, and just want him to go.
GEMMA And the thing is, he’s he’s a writer on this, what Scott Sanders the director and Byron men’s and I love that you can sort of feel that infused throughout. He’s not just turning up to play the role. He’s he is all the way through it. Tell you who else is all the way through it. Ruth E. Carter, baby. Now we are talking about some, you know, extremely high level costuming, talent here, both of the Black Panther films and so much more. But what I love about this is how much fun must Ruth have been? In the hair department in the makeup department? The wigs in this are so deliberately chunky, that it just adds to the whole vibe of the thing. I could swear that one of the Efros was like sparkling was I seeing things or didn’t want to be afraid of glitter in it?
JAMELLE No, I think that’s right. I watched it with my parents recently they were visiting. And usually when they visit, they go to bed weirdly late. And so I just kind of stay up and I was like, Hey, you guys have never seen Black Dynamite. It’s always sort of dicey watching a movie like that with my parents because we’re like, a very traditional people. But we watched the last time before that we watched the the Dolomite making on Netflix. My name is Dolemite Is My Name. And they really liked that. And they weren’t too scandalized by it. So I was like, okay, we can watch like dynamite. And they loved it. And they love especially like with it with the hair and with the outfits. They’re like yeah, this is that’s how I fight people dress. And there’s like, there’s like a funny level of like authenticity to the movie, which I think is part of its charm. Like it’s not it’s not making fun of the genre. It’s sort of like it’s It’s expressing love for the genre by playing up its most absurd elements. And that’s like a that’s like a real distinction. It’s um, it’s not unlike Austin Powers, right? Which is like very much a love letter to kind of like the 1960s Swinging London mod movies, that kind of thing. And it’s not making fun of them. It’s just sort of like, heightening everything that was so silly about them out of like love and affection.
GEMMA Well, I just want to thank you because this was the first time watch for me there are reasons why I missed a lot of movies in the year 2009 But if I’d been able to see this one in cinemas at the time, I think it really would have helped with with the with the sickness and the grief I was going through but I’m glad I finally saw it now I would say that it is 1,000% in cinemas with friends kind of film. I said to be watching it alone on the couch by myself, but I still enjoyed it and also boobs there beats in it. They’re just gonna say it, because I’m the girl here. There are beats in it. There are all kinds of boobs in it and I really appreciated that tell you what I would have appreciated about Black Dynamite
SLIM not seeing the second Wang on the one character
GEMMA this film has got to be a neat little box list that’s like movies that have the D if it’s nice to go in there right now. What I would have loved to see in Black Dynamite is the actor Nathan George, hiding behind a pole with a gun freaking out trying to get out of the line of fire. I am talking of course, about Patrol Officer James and The Taking of Pelham One Two Three, the 1974 Joseph Sargent version. We are up to your third favorite a New York subway train has hijacked for a ransom in New York City Transit Police liftin and Walter Matthau must stop the heist. Now this is just so much fun. But why? Why this one and not the Dean cell taking your Pelham 123
JAMELLE Okay, also, I mean, the Denzel one is fine. You know, I saw that I actually saw that movie and a drive in in the middle of nowhere in Virginia. And it was a double feature with the Idris Elba Ali Larter Beyonce movie. I saw that it’s fine. I liked them. So I like John Travolta, but they don’t hold a candle to Walter Matthau and Robert Shaw. And I mean, not just sort of the actors, but I love this movie for a lot of reasons. Top of the list, I think it’s so cozy, very cozy movie to me. Walter Matthau is wearing this sort of like Tweety sweater blazer, a very 70s outfit, makes patter and earthy colors. There’s lots of sort of like tans and browns everywhere. And he’s just sort of like Sly and very smart. Like we’re intelligent, but sort of just sort of like over it. And I liked that whole energy, maybe one of the best depictions of New York in the 1970s. And the other one I can think of is, or one of the other ones I can think of is The French Connection. But The French Connection like New York is very seedy and dangerous. And in this New York is CD, certainly, but it’s CD and kind of mundane. It CD and sort of like Yeah, well, this is just how it is. And this is this is where we live. It’s sort of silly in a lot of ways that the Fred Kok asked mer character, it should have a great representation of kind of like, you know, venal and unserious New York politician.
GEMMA Can we talk about what is going on with that Mayor? I mean, people in this film, there are a couple of people and taking a Pelham, 123 who are sick, you know, who keeps sneezing. And the plot is important to you know, like that character detail is important to one of them. And then there’s the man who’s just like, in his bed being a dick. What a wild characterization of a public servant.
JAMELLE Well, it’s sort of a variation of 1970s Contempt for city politicians, right? This is the decade where New York goes bankrupt, and like the federal government will bail it out. I mean, there’s a lot of that I feel like all that stuff is legible to an audience in the 70s. It’s very much like in my culture. But it’s funny, it’s funny in the movie, this is like a I think this is a very thrilling movie. And like, a lot of that, I think, is it was tough, the Robert Shaw’s performance for so much of the people. So there’s still a comedy around Shaw, but Shaw is deadly serious. And he kind of makes it clear that like, No, this guy, this guy, you know, he, he kills people, he will kill people. He is very serious about what he’s doing. And it helps ground the movie. In a lot of ways.
SLIM There’s a letterbox list that made me think of my first feeling of this was which was first seen during COVID. From w mckinty. And I, this was a firt. This was a COVID watch. For me. I watched this for the first time last year as well. And it reminded me of movies like this. I think The French Connection might have been a first time COVID Watch for me to where, you know, you had more time, and you’re going through your letterbox, which a lot of more people did during COVID. They’re discovering movies that they haven’t washed yet. And these types of 70s New York movies were like at the top of my want to watch list like I’m gonna finally dig into these gritty dirty ass New York City grime movies. And I love these movies. I love this era of filmmaking. There’s just something intoxicating about a dirty ass New York City.
JAMELLE Yes, it’s dirty in the in you. There’s a lot of reasons you can’t make a movie like you couldn’t make a movie like this today. Part of it is that New York City is not dirty like this. I mean, it’s like still kind of dirty. There’s trash everywhere in rats, but it’s not dirty that 70s way where it’s seedy as well, right, like kind of unsavory. But also, they don’t put they don’t put ugly people in movies anymore. And this is a movie populated entirely of ugly people. And I love it. I love it for that.
SLIM They represent us they put us in. We could have been in these movies.
GEMMA What are you saying you too? You could have been in these movies. Like dynamite. Dynamite. Though right Nick Oosten on letterbox writes, Hollywood needs to return to leading men who look like Jerry Stiller.
JAMELLE Because I was just about to say Jerry still like Jerry Stiller. Marty bow some Walter Matthau obviously like looks like a hound dog, everyone that Robert Shaw has the closest thing to a classically handsome face in this movie. And otherwise, we’re just looking at a bunch just like grizzled character actor in New York faces Hector Elizondo. Isn’t this with a great face. I don’t know lots of great craggly faces
SLIM like normal like normal people. These are normal people. This folks aren’t going to be in the Avengers. This isn’t Walter Matthau is not gonna be playing Captain America in four other films coming out in the next 10 years. And and I that’s what is such a draw for these kind of movies. Like you said, the clothes they wear, you know, just feels cozy like I could wear that. I could wear that little that’s that sweater vest. I could be running the computer at the New York subway station Naurang the base mood
GEMMA is Oh, yeah, I was gonna say it’s the tick and this for me because I feel like is this and less MRI? Right, there’s these there’s these great sort of subway chases these these on foot surveillance or in car surveillance. You know, they’re in there. They’re tracking the train. And it’s just these little dots of lights moving along a wall. There’s no cameras, we’ve, we’ve lost a lot I think through we’ve certainly gained a lot of of Jason bornus and action films through surveillance everywhere. But we’ve lost a lot in of that kind of tactile, gritty down on the street foot chase type action.
JAMELLE I agree. It’s too easy to do stuff. This is This is why the late early 90s are a good time for technology movies, too, because things are advanced enough to be a little magical, but like not so advanced that it isn’t so kind of a pain in the ass to do it sometimes. And that’s like the right I feel like that’s, that’s the sweet spot.
GEMMA Where are you thinking of Sneakers?
JAMELLE I mean, Sneakers definitely is a great example of that. But in a funny way. A great example of that is Star Wars, where it’s like it’s like technology, but like beat up technology. It’s sort of like we can go faster of light but I have to kick out a couple times for to actually do it.
GEMMA I mean, honestly, Harrison Ford whacking the waking the motherboard is one of the best gifts of all time.
SLIM There’s a review from will cinematic tribute to the sweaty bellowing ofce, who make up New York City’s civil service and government. Yes, they may be bigoted, bumbling, corrupt and uncouth. But when push comes to shove, they care about the city and its people because that’s New York baby number one.
JAMELLE It’s I don’t I’ve never lived in New York. I’m there. I visit there quite often for work, but I’ve never lived there. But I have a lot of affection for the city. And I feel like this is sort of a Top New York movie, it captures something very true about as that reviewer said, like what actually makes the city run and it isn’t the glitz and glamour. It’s like a bunch of dudes who look like they wash their faces with mud.
GEMMA Honestly. It’s someone who is so true. As someone who has lived in New York it does. A movie like this does give me some trauma. Just all the times that any New Yorker has spent sitting between stations in a tunnel. No idea when this train is going to start moving again. And then the idea that four dudes with guns with enjoying you in that state. I mean, it’s already bad enough just just sitting on that train picking up whatever bugs people have got. And I do not miss the F train is what I’m saying.
SLIM A lot of fun soundtrack had me vibe and love the soundtrack to this movie.
JAMELLE I love all those 70s jazzy scores. Yeah, David David Shire score. Three Days of the Condor has like a really fun jazzy score, which you even think like oh, that’s like a serious movie probably like lots of strings and horns. No like jazz maybe?
GEMMA All I’m gonna say is I don’t miss sitting on the F train between stations in a tunnel not knowing when it’s going to move again. But speaking of if, F for Fake, Citizen Kane, these are some of the movies the great Orson Welles has made. Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you.
JAMELLE I never I never just wipe.
SLIM It was almost like the Black Dynamite crew figuring out the plot when they were naming all the things that were related and not related. I really figured out this
GEMMA looking up to the left as I was doing it. Anyway. Yes. So we’re in Orson Welles territory. Now we are moving into the second most popular and highest rated film of 1958 on letterbox. What do you think? What’s your knowledge about 1958? What do you think the highest rated film of that year? Is of 1958?
JAMELLE Is it The Killing?
GEMMA Who’s the higher writer director who sits only above Orson Welles?
JAMELLE I mean, Henry Kubrick. Well,
GEMMA I was gonna say it has to be Hitchcock. But you’re right. It could be either, either. Anyway, so Vertigo, it goes, Touch of Evil, Touch of Evil. This is an amazing film with one of the best openings ever. And also one of the most thrilling final scenes ever. This is so great like it’s obvious why it’s in your top four. But Jamel go for gold. Tell us why Touch of Evil here’s the spot
JAMELLE when I made this up for I was like representative movies at the stuff that I like, not inclusive of everything I mentioned we’ve mentioned before recording I love big ornate period dramas and so you know, if there was five slots one of them would go to like The Age of Innocence or something or my go to The Leopard or something like that. Give me all the talk about the leopard. I fucking love that.
SLIM special bonus leopard episode. Yeah.
JAMELLE I cannot talk about that movie enough. But, but I love Orson Welles. I’m sure a big Orson Welles fan. I have a copy of the multivolume biography of works in Wales and kind of just like fascinated by it. And I was trying to think of a Wells movie to put on after fake is actually probably my favorite wells movie. I think it’s like a wonderful documentary and they kind of a wonderful kind of like postmodern artifact, I think it’s great. But in the interest of trying to be representative and I love, like many people who are, it was like, Touch of Evil, in part because of that, just absolutely crackerjack opening. That is so you know, confident. And it’s like, well, it’s clearly showing off just being like I can, I still got it, I can still do this stuff. Wells’s performance, where he kind of makes himself grotesque in a way that he doesn’t, he hasn’t really ever before sense like he’s heavier. Right, but like, the way you know, and efforts for fake is kind of like you’ve jolly when he’s Falstaff. He’s kind of Jolly right like he’s like, kind of he’s pleasant. But well, isn’t Touch of Evil is just like a grotesque human like or test monster of a man. Which is, I think, a very different thing for him to play. I feel like you have to stipulate like Trump lessons is in this movie, he’s in brown face the entire time. If people are like, that’s really offensive, I totally get that. You don’t want to watch Trump lesson and brown face you should not have to. But I personally do not think it detracts too much from the film, it’s, I’m not gonna do you know, relative it’s time. But which because what it is, but people were at the time, were like, You shouldn’t do that. Yeah. You shouldn’t you cannot do that.
GEMMA It’s just like Breakfast at Tiffany’s. It just brings it all down on every rewatch.
JAMELLE but I think it’s just I think Touch of Evil is a exemplary example of the form of a noir. In its visual approach in wells, really putting those Dutch angles and deep shadows to work. And it is, like thrilling and compelling. It’s like i i The mystery is seeing the mystery unfold. Seeing Wells’s character get trapped by His own, His own maneuvering, all that, for me extremely compelling to watch. So that’s why it’s on there. I just I like I it’s, it’s it’s both an example of the kinds of movies I like, and also one of the best versions of that kind of movie.
SLIM How will we last week we talked with Ryan Connolly and Gemma vociferously talked about her dislike the Dutch angle
GEMMA in the context of 80s 90s action movies, I 100% think Dutch angles below Long into Ah, don’t get me wrong angles and shadows a record.
SLIM Let the record show Gemma and lugz Dutch angles and
GEMMA angles, shadows new brides gang , car bomb explosions, shady detectives you know a madam running a boudoir, a brothel. Like it’s got the lot hasn’t it?
SLIM Silent on put this on a list as well, effortlessly cool. And I think that’s pretty accurate. Like this is a movie that also style wise holds up, like insanely. Everyone looks fantastic. Everyone knows how to dress. Still looks. Everyone looks good.
GEMMA Apparently it’s Antonio Banderas his favorite film? Oh, that’s interesting when he’s been asked in the past, and I’m just like, I’d love to see. I don’t know if he could remake this because it is so of its time, but I would love to see a remake where Charlton Heston doesn’t have to do brown face because Antonio, isn’t it
JAMELLE for me, like remakes make the most sense when there’s something about a movie that could be either the scenario is like timeless, right? And you can kind of just like transported to different different kinds of environments and it still works so well. You know, whatever. Was it a little The Shop Around the Corner, and then You’ve Got Mail, it’s sort of like you can that’s just that’s a kind of that’s a that’s a a conceit that can be used in all different kinds of times environment. I watched something recently and I thought to myself this this should be remade, because it’s, they can see it would totally work in the present, but I can’t it was anyway,
SLIM Commando.
JAMELLE I don’t think you could do Commando. I don’t think you could do Commando anymore.
GEMMA Do you think so I found the name of the film you’re trying to think of before Idris Elba. Beyonce, Obsessed. Do you think that could be remade already?
JAMELLE I mean, yes. That movie is really bad. It’s
GEMMA point four. It’s a 2.4. I mean, how are you even gonna sell us on this? So this is the one you saw at a drive in? Is a double features this
JAMELLE feature overtaking the Pelham 1233 remake? Yep. Yep.
GEMMA Grandma, who was the programmer if that
JAMELLE was a it was a drive in movie theater in Front Royal, Virginia, which is a place that no one has any reason to know about other than like, like a Virginia politician. I don’t know the programmer was. I don’t know anything about how it happened. But I do think that that’s where I saw it
GEMMA is going on my watch list. Four stars from Bethany who writes fiance’s fight scene at the end is better than any fight scene in the MCU.
JAMELLE That movie is a great example of how interest elbow one of the most famous men in the world, you know, extremely handsome, but like has he been in a good movie?
SLIM I think about that with the rock a lot. I have many gripes with Seven Bucks Productions. And I’m waiting for the rock to have his like, you know, Terminator 2: Judgment Day, True Lies movie or whatever.
JAMELLE So the rock is like too obsessed with his brand to be in a good movie I’ve ever I think I think the rock is never going to be a good movie.
SLIM But the fans will love it.
GEMMA Three Thousand Years of Longing didn’t do it for you.
JAMELLE I haven’t seen that and that might be the one that I have not seen that.
GEMMA Okay, so it’s it’s Jamel, it’s it’s Thanksgiving at the time we record what is what is the ultimate double feature that you might be sitting your family down to watch this weekend? It could be two films from this year. I film from this year and the past.
JAMELLE I have not I have not yet seen the new Black Panther I feel like kind of obligated to see it. So But am I excited about that? I mean, if it’s just me if I’m just sort of like sitting my family in front of the TV, and like opening their eyes, I guess A Clockwork Orange, then after a big meal, and you just want to like relax, and not think too hard? I’m probably gonna put on one of the many probably to Batman movies. Batman movies are sort of my relaxation movies because I love Batman. I think the movies are generally pretty good like even the even the bad ones are entertaining for me. And so maybe we’ll watch the new The Batman, maybe you will put on the two Burton one which I love. I don’t know but that seems like about the speed I’m going to want to be at either like a Batman movie or I have this Planet of the Apes boxset of like all the apes movies. And so just like put on two of those I use movies baby like they’re you know, they’re, they’re short. You don’t have to pay that much attention to their fun.
GEMMA I feel like we came into this episode with me desperate to be your new best friend and we’re leaving this episode with you having charmed Slim.
SLIM I’ll be on the couch with Jamelle’s family—three hours of The Batman and then Planet of the Apes. I’m in baby!
[theme song ramps up, plays alone, fades out]
SLIM Our guest today was Jamelle Bouie. You can follow Jamelle on Letterboxd, that link and links for all the reviews and lists we mentioned are in the show notes as well as Jamelle’s podcast Unclear and Present Danger. Speaking of following though, The Letterboxd Show is followed each week by our other podcast, Weekend Watchlist. Mitchell and Mia and myself explore the latest releases in theaters and on streaming, shuffle our own watchlists and speaking of watchlists, we’ve mentioned White Noise at the top of the show, don’t forget to add that to your watch list to make sure you see that in the future whenever you’re ready.
GEMMA Thanks to our crew: Jack for the facts, Brian Formo for booking and looking after our guests, Sophie Shin for the episode transcripts, Samm for the art, Slim for editing the show and to Moniker for the theme music. You can always drop us a line at We love getting your mail. The Letterboxd Show is a Tapedeck production. It’s officially Thanksgiving. Slim’s disappeared, there’s nobody driving this effing train.
SLIM Use the dead man switch.
[Tapedeck bumper plays] This is a Tapedeck podcast.